Crying with Katharine Seggerman: A Chat with Lunch Duchess

I sat down with Katharine Seggerman of Lunch Duchess to talk about her forthcoming album, Crying For Fun, out August 16th on Heavy Meadow Records. We talk about Britney Spears, relationships, and of course, our feelings.

Photo by Chloe Krenz. Lunch Duchess is:

Katharine Seggerman (she/her) - drums, vocals

Nicky Steves (he/them) - synths

Sam Frederick (they/them) - guitar

Matthew Sandstedt (he/him) - bass

So how did you decide to start singing and drumming?

People kept telling me to do it for years and I was always resentful of that because it’s kind of hard. And I think there’s some weird gender aspects of me wanting to prove that I’m a good musician and not just a singer. And then I bought myself a headset microphone and that was a game changer, and it still took years to get competent at it.

I feel like the natural progression of “what can I do in addition to singing?” is playing guitar. So drums is different, were you already interested in it?

That was my starting point actually. I started drums when I was 12 and played in a band with my friends in middle school, and played in jazz band in middle school. I did a teen program kind of similar to She Rock, and then my own bands in high school and college. It wasn’t until I was in this band, BOYF, now defunct (RIP). That was a hilarious band and I played drums in that and then started singing on the headset mic. 

I just really wanna see you with an early 2000s Britney Spears-esque headset mic. That’s my dream Lunch Duchess set.

You’re giving me such a good idea, I don’t know what to wear for the release yet. Maybe like the red latex one she wore in “Oops I Did It Again.” Ponytail and hair extensions. 

You describe your voice as “Disney-esque.” What’s your vocal background? Are you a trained singer?

My only musical training is percussion so I can read percussive music, but never got beyond middle school choir for vocals. Although I did sit down with Sam’s mom, who’s actually a well known singer in the Twin Cities and got some tips from her, because I’ve been trying to learn a little bit on my own as an adult. 

In the press kit you sent me, a lot of the sentences end with “this may sound like a lot- it is.” Which I think is an interesting choice of words, can you define “a lot”?

I think of the songs as being very distilled, and not even distilled to simplicity but really intense elements taken from each component of the song. Like the emotionality, the lyrics, the instrumentation. There’s not really a lot of fluff. I think the intensity of the songs themselves and the commitment to going all out when I easily could’ve alluded to an idea. Like the part when everybody in the band is singing “lala lala lalala,” it’s so unnecessary... it’s a lot. I think a lot of bands might have a similar idea, but with less intensity. 

Ok, well obviously I follow Lunch Duchess on Twitter, and I saw one of your tweets where someone was very confused by you defining your band as grunge pop. But then in your press kit you’ve articulated the sound of each song to a tee. So do people not “get” your sound, is that a problem you come across?

Photo by Chloe Krenz

I think that particular tweet was about a really interesting conversation I had with someone who doesn’t really listen to music. I mean the way he was talking about it like “I use hip hop at the gym.” Which was really eye opening because I’m surrounded by people who live and breathe music.

The album is very cohesive but the songs shift from each other. Like “Chicago” is more rock in feel than most of the other songs. How does that come together? 

That’s a good question. I think it goes back to the way that I write each song. So for some songs- well they all start with vocal melody. Probably something is bothering me and a melody pops into my head. And then I will find stuff to go under that using either a banjo or a piano, sometimes a bass. And then flesh it out as best I can for the structure itself. And after that I bring in bandmates. I think it’ll change based on who kind of takes the lead instrumentally, if it’s gonna be more guitar driven or more synth driven. A mood is really important to me, so using the instruments to convey a certain mood of like doom, or excitement, anxiety… I think a lot of it has to do with the developmental process, writing with the band once the structure is done, and what the mood of the song needs to be. 

It’s interesting that you drive things based on how it comes together rather than creating a formula for what you want the album to be and then bringing people in.

And even having different people be involved on the album in different parts. Like the song “Better” originally was played with a different guitarist. And some of these songs were played by Matt on guitar who now plays bass, some of them were played with Ranelle on bass, who now plays synths. It’s fluid.

I actually did want to walk about “Better.” It has this playful, bouncy sound. But there’s that line “just kidding, that wasn’t me but only cause society is extremely unforgiving of female sexuality.” It has me wondering how much of that song we should truly read as a joke?

I think they’re serious issues, but I’m trying not to burden myself by taking it so seriously and being so angry about it, even though at different times I am definitely super angry about some of that stuff. On one hand “Body” I’m talking about “I get naked anytime I like” and that line kind of bothers me because it sounds like I’m talking about having sex but I literally just mean I like being naked. I’ll probably spend some time in a nudist colony at some point, I don’t know. I don’t understand societal norms around that and why bodies have to be sexualized, that really pisses me off. And that goes into the territory of possession too and reproductive justice, so that’s stuff that I’m angry about. And not prioritizing partners’ sexual needs, especially if the partner is a straight cis guy, they could be doing a little better. Which is why the song is called “Better.”

That’s funny because I have a question about “Body.” I’m very much a believer that having a body is weird and that I’d be ok being sentient haze.

I wish. What are you, an Aquarius or something? 

I’m actually a Capricorn! But because of your points on autonomy it becomes arguably the only political track on the album. Because you said you try not to let it burden you, was that a moment where you wanted to touch on something more specifically?

In writing that song I had started out wanting to do something really silly and was just playing around. The first two verses are about really inconsequential things like allergies and being sensitive to drugs. And then I was asking myself “why am I even writing about bodies if it’s just a joke?” and realized I could say something I actually do care a lot about in it. Which is not usually how a song works for me. Maybe I’m adding little bits here and there but it’s not “let me bring in an entire issue that’s important to me.” So kind of explaining to myself why I wanted to write about that in the first place. And the other ones definitely aren’t political, I think they mostly deal with boundaries and relationships. And sometimes that’s in a societally gendered way, kind of a stereotype of like women are supposed to save men and men are stereotyped as not being responsible for their behavior, not taking accountability, needing to be mothered. So I think some of the songs are push backs against that mentality.

Especially on “Lust/Love,” a lyric I really attached to is “don’t recall how to be alone, it’s making me angry that you do.” Thematically I did want to ask you about the concept of boundaries throughout the album because it does undercut most of the songs. This idea of what am I on my own? What am I with another person? How do I not overextend?

That’s one of the only songs on the album that’s about an entirely different relationship. I don’t want to get too specific and make the subject feel bad. But a lot of the songs on the album are about a specific relationship and a specific type of relationship that was pretty co-dependent. And trying to figure it out, usually from a self-empowering kind of way, during those rare moments in a co-dependent relationship where you question what you’re doing. But this relationship [portrayed in "Lust/Love"] was so far from that and purely physical. And then kind of acknowledging that I don’t know how it feels to be in a relationship where we’re so much more independent- to the point of excluding emotions. And just really having my thinking changed by someone who was a lot more detached, which at the time was really healthy for me. It was just a reset.

Going off that, Crying For Fun definitely has some difficulties defining love.

Yeah, especially going back to that one very co-dependent relationship and just feeling moments of total doubt in myself. Like is this love? Do I know how to love? Is this how I want to be loved? And am I loving this person the way that they deserve? So I think there is a lot of anxiety about that on the album. And then other moments that are kind of taking a break from that, like “Chicago” is a new crush, and “Lust/Love” is a whole different thing. So kind of exploring different avenues and trying to answer those very basic questions about love and capacity to love. 

I really like the word “capacity” in this context.

I guess, damnit I thought I had grown, but a song on the previous EP is called “How You Love” and towards the end of the song it keeps repeating “is that how you love?” and “did I love well?” So I guess I’m still asking that question in a way, but starting to use more outside sources for getting feedback than relying just on myself. Your own internalized narratives can get so twisted if you keep telling yourself the same thing over and over again. 

So is it safe to assume that you’re someone who’s comfortable being seen as openly emotional?

Yes, definitely! And even then I still am a little nervous about it. There is a part of me that really enjoys confrontation because I think it’s healthy for people to be stating their needs instead of the Minnesotan tendency to gloss over it and not talk about it. So sometimes I still am scared to bring things up. But it’s a lot scarier to me to not be feeling emotions at all. And I think I was feeling that way for a long time when I was a lot more depressed and medicated, and coming out of that I think I’m really grateful that I have the capacity to be really sad or be really upset or be really happy. So I kind of think Crying For Fun is a little bit about that, about getting back in touch with my emotions.

And it’s, in a way, easier to not feel.

But if you’re not feeling you’re not getting signals from life about where to go. You’re not gonna end up in a happy place when you’re finally ready to confront your emotions. And I keep using ‘you’ language but I know it’s not universal, it’s personalized.

Talking about Crying For Fun versus My Mom Says I Have a Rich Inner Life, we have “Cry II” and the single “Ride or Die” appears again. Is Crying For Fun an expansion of the EP or do you view it more as something totally different that has a track that’s been refurbished? 

I think the answer to that is more technical than anything else. I wondered should we re-release “Ride or Die” and I asked a friend of mine and he was like “well it’s probably gonna expose more people to it so it’s good to include it again” and it’s a good song, I still like it. But thematically, if it’s an expansion? I think so. I’m asking that question about love again and defiantly talking about crying, which is not something people are usually proud that they do. And there are other themes that still carry through too, I think about independence. Some of the stuff on “Unable/Unwilling,” I think that song is a lot about coming out of depression and people putting their assumptions on you about your motives for doing certain things. I think in that one a boyfriend assumes music is something I do as a hobby. But in fact it’s mostly emotional exorcism. That’s the reason why I write songs. So unfortunately when I’m doing really well and I’m happy, like I am right now, I don’t do a lot of writing. But I try to not worry about it. I don’t really understand the point of art that is not necessary to the maker. If I don’t feel the need to create then I’m not gonna make myself do it, I’m not gonna do like an inspiration exercise. Which maybe I’ll change my mind on that, but at the moment I’ll fill my time with something else. Like going to grad school.

Are you? Congratulations!

Thank you! I’m going to be a talk therapist. So doing some more emotions and dark secrets and analysis. So kind of fulfilling that need in a different place, I guess. 

It would be cool to find out your therapist is in a band. Though probably just for the patient, not for you.

I’m so nervous about that. Like “yeah she’s in a band and writes some really forthright lyrics about sex and I know way too much about her sex life now.” Yeah, I’m probably gonna have to change my name.

There’s something very subversive about Crying For Fun. There’s a sweetness in some of the instrumentals but the lyrics are darker; I think it’s part of what makes the album sound so distinct. How do you create that kind of juxtaposition?  

I think it’s maybe a mirror of how I’m thinking about some of these things, which truthfully it’s not the healthiest way to deal with things. But a lot of these songs have been in the bag for years, “Better” is a really old song for example. In kind of just stepping back and looking at this collection of songs and other things going on in my life I feel like the angst comes from thinking that I have to keep my dissatisfaction about things secret. So not being able to openly discuss when I’m dissatisfied, which is nobody’s fault, I think it’s more an existential problem. You only have one life to live and you have to be brave enough to do it. I think freedom of choice can be a really terrifying thing for people. Sometimes you wish someone else would make the choice for you. So you go with the flow and you stay in things that you don’t like but you sort of pretend that you do like them and then it ends up just making you resentful. And I think I’ve been feeling resentful about different situations just out of my own fear to do what I want to do. But if you don’t know what you want to do for a long time, you just end up kind of stuck in a loop. 

How does that lead into creating these very saturated songs?

I think that I’ve been really selective in what to put on the album. There are a lot of other songs out there but at some point it feels like it’s not clicking or it doesn’t need to be said. It feels redundant compared to something else in the catalogue. And then I’ll decide not to develop it any further. I feel a little bad about this, but I really don’t like performing songs that I don’t feel to be emotionally true anymore, which is probably frustrating for my bandmates. It’s like “oh yeah I just want you to learn this song” and then six months later it’s like, “no I don’t feel that way anymore.”

Are there any songs specifically that you’re not playing right now?

There used to be one, I was just listening to a demo of it on my way here because it popped into my head, it’s called “Friend/Lover/Fuck Me Over,” and it’s being just really frustrated with someone even outside a romantic relationship and feeling like they’re just not respecting you as a person no matter where you try to meet them. It has some really cutting, mean lyrics, some of my songs do. At the end it says “bad people they have a way of being bad friends” which is literally calling someone a bad person, that’s pretty mean. So sometimes I’ll shy away from songs that are overly attacking of someone without taking enough share of the responsibility.

You say it yourself that Crying For Fun is full of “earworms,” which is almost an understatement. I think it’s funny with the subject matter that you work with that it ends up being really catchy. How intentional is that?

The only songs that I end up developing are the ones that are banging around my head for a long time. That phrase and melody is just going through my head constantly until I think of some other parts to go along with it. So I’d say it’s pretty unintentional but I like the fact that a lot of them are darker subject matter and are catchy. I think everyone could take some time to reflect on their emotions and relationships and other stuff that maybe they wouldn’t hear about in a normal pop song. I feel like there is such a trend about that lately- pop songs about anxiety that you hear on Top 40 and you’re like “what? This is really dark stuff.” That Julia Michaels song that’s like “I got issues and we got issues.” Unexpected. 

A lyric that’s really imprinted on me is “I love you like I fight a war” on “Makes Me Love You More.” Could you tell me a little more about it? 

I think that song is coming to terms with a complicated romantic relationship, and I think right now our culture is quick to dub things abusive or toxic, but even in those relationships you’re getting something out of it or else you wouldn’t be in it. I’m sorry, I mean that in a nuanced way, obviously in an abusive relationship there’s not much you can do to defend a truly abusive person. But there is something lovable about every person and you can’t just pretend that you never loved the person, even if it was a kind of love that felt like going to war everyday. And that’s with yourself and with that person. With yourself just in terms of it’s not actually healthy for you but you make yourself do it or you’re trying to make yourself get out of it. I don’t think that fighting in a war is the ideal way to be in a relationship, but even in those relationships there is still something that you love about that person and that’s still a valid love. And definitely admitting guilt on that too. Like should you be in a relationship with someone? Maybe you’re doing some harm too or I was doing some harm in feeling like it was a war. It’s two sided. 

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Pre-order the digital album here and cassettes here and catch their album release party on August 31st at Mortimer’s Bar and Restaurant.

Feature: High School Band Why Not is No Question

Photo By Johnny Nguyen

After being sent an incredibly enthusiastic email, I find myself sitting down with genre-refusing teen band, Why Not. The band is following up their 2018 album Spring Cleaning with EP, EP, out today, February 15th. Drummer Josh MacGregor has promised me that this is their “most captivating, interesting, and professional release so far.” So at the very least, Why Not is confident. Opening track “Ready 4 the World” backs that up on title alone, the band telling me that it’s the only song on Spotify titled “Ready 4 the World” using the number instead of the word.

Why Not thinks of themselves as a new step beyond punk and emo and math rock. And they aren’t wrong. EP layers autotune over a cacophony of guitar and fits a ten minute track into a four song release. Why Not, as a whole, are unique in their audacity. Singer, Henry Breen is articulate and soft spoken when I speak with him about the album. Which is a rare skill for a high schooler to possess. And it bleeds through EP. He sings about maturity, growth, and self-awareness over layered tracks. On “Thud. Dead.” he repeatedly slurs “I’m turning into ashes” as the track drifts away with a train chug. But there are no sad songs on EP. Even the feelings of being lost in your own mind and unable to properly convey yourself are undermined with energy. Why Not are cautious not to delve into the despair and self-pity of the three pieces of yore. They’re young, but just old enough to know they should care. Guitarist Isaac Dell tells me “we love our buds” while Josh chimes in “we’re wholesome people.” Part of what differentiates EP is its lack of edge. It’s not trying to be anything it isn’t, it’s refreshingly earnest. Why Not doesn’t posture themselves as the cool kids in school, and that’s what makes them so endearing. EP thinks self-righteous head nods are passe and encourages audiences to dance instead. This release is sonic; you can feel the band’s excitement of coming into their own. When asked about “Why Not” versus “Why Not?” they eagerly tell me that it’s a statement. Sans question mark is “exciting.” Isaac perks up and tells me that it’s also aesthetically better while handing me a handful of band stickers. But question mark aside, EP does stand on its own.

Photo By Johnny Nguyen

Sitting with the band we discuss Spongebob, Ariana Grande, and the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire, and it becomes clear why they vie for positivity. They know their truth and they’re optimistic about it. Why Not isn’t emo, they’re not pop punk, they don’t swear in front of me. The peace and joy they find in expressing their more negative feelings is a punk mentality all its own. EP is the product of people who don’t want you to associate their music with sadness. Which may be naive, but it’s what differentiates EP from the rest. This EP is made for themselves, and if it resonates with others, then Why Not is happy. Their idealism seems young. But their desire to grow as people is wiser. Why Not is three teens making music because they love doing it and because they care for each other. And the world is definitely ready for that.

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Why Not will be having their release party for EP on March 2nd at the Fall Out Arts Initiative in Minneapolis.

Keep up with the band on Facebook + Instagram

A Chat With: Gully Boys

Based out of Minneapolis, Gully Boys are a neo-emo band blazing the way for non-male bands in the DIY scene. I sat down with drummer, Nadirah McGill to discuss boy bands, “diversity,” and shifting the dialogue on local music.

Photo courtesy of Gully Boys

Tell me a little about how you got started.

I started playing the drums about two and a half years ago. My ex-boyfriend had a drumkit and I would just fuck around on it. I finally saw these two drummers, Ben and Drew from POLICA. I saw them live and I was just like.. deceased. And it inspired me to start drumming. I always wanted to drum but my mom wouldn’t let me, she said it was too loud. So as soon as I was old enough, I got one, and it kind of happened like fate. My ex-boyfriend broke my TV and so he gifted me the drumset as payment.

Wait. Your ex broke your TV?

He was like “you can have this drum set, I was gonna sell it but I broke your TV. So.” And I was like “that’s fine”.”

Ok, Continue.

And so that’s kind of how Gully Boys started. Kathy came over and we covered “Boyfriend” by Best Coast. And then she showed me one of the songs she had and it was called “Hymen Honey.” She invited her best friend Natalie, and we jammed together one time and we became a band. It was nice because none of us had really played our instruments before so there wasn’t a level of power difference or hierarchy. We all learned our instruments and grew together. We all have a musical background in different things, so it’s really fun to kind of take that and smash it into a different instrument. Our first gig was in 2016, and we had started playing like maybe a month before that. We said we wanted to be a band, and came up with a name, and then just never practiced because we were like “we know how to do this.” And then we booked our first gig and we were like “oh shit we need to figure this out.” We pulled it together. And it’s really funny because my friend brought my mom, and I didn’t know but she recorded our first gig. My drumset was next to the stage, it was so awkward. We were so nervous and were just shaky little babies in the video. It’s kind of embarrassing that it’s on the web. My sister was actually at our second gig where we covered ‘Burning Up’ by the Jonas Brothers and she posted it on Facebook. Now it’s always there.

Music is undoubtedly dominated by men. The drums are especially an instrument we don’t often see non-men play. What’s that like for you?

So when I was on tour in Chicago this last New Years Eve, this guy walked up to me and he was like “you’re actually a good girl drummer! I see all these good girl drummers online, but when I see women drum in person they’re never that good. You’re actually amazing!” And I know he meant that as a compliment but it was so fucking rude because I know that people don’t say that to men. It sucks. If you’re femme-presenting or just not a dude and you play the drums, or are just in a band in a predominantly white male setting, it’s hard. But with my drums people patronize me in small ways. They don’t assume I know what a drum kit is or how to set it up. Someone told me once, when we were backlining the drum kit, I was like “oh what do I need to bring? My pedals and my breakables?” and they were like “oh you know what breakables are? Usually we have to say cymbals and snare.” I’m not an idiot. It sucks so hard to exist in this space and to just have to not take it personally. I know I have to have tough skin because. I had a girl come up to me and tell me that she wanted to start a band because of our band, and she had never played an instrument before. And that’s all I want to do. Because I never had female rockers to look up to, especially queer rockers of color. And I don’t play the drums to show off, I do it for me. Drummers were always my favorite in bands. And Katherine from Lunch Dutchess is like, my idol. Every time I see her band play I’m so inspired. It’s just so good to see women drumming, and she’s such a badass, so when men do question her about stupid shit she can just tell ‘em to go fuck off.

Have you ever had that chance?

Yeah! It was so funny. So we had a gig at this space, and right before I was shooting a music video for someone else and I was playing the drums in it. And in this one part of the music videos I was purposely getting frustrated with one part on the drums. And this guy walks up to me and goes “if you just raise your snare stand, just a quarter of an inch you’d get it every time.” And I just looked at him and said “you fucking asshole, I’m doing this on purpose, I know how to play the drums. Thanks even though I didn’t ask.” He was so confused, and I’m like dude, nobody asked. Why do men think they can just insert themselves and give me unsolicited advice?

Do you get that “advice” a lot?

All the time. And it’s so annoying. It feels like they’re trying to hold my hand and go “oh, silly girl you don’t know what you’re doing.” But, I love when they do that before I actually play and then I play and they’re like wow, you know what’s up.

You recently posted a meme on Instagram with you and other non-male bands in the Twin Cities as the Breakfast Club. Which was hilarious. But do you find that you all get lumped into one category?

I just ranted about this recently. As non-men bands, we get compared to each other All. The. Time. Especially in write ups. Like, when we played the main room we got compared to Scrunchies. And we don’t even play the same genre of music. In write ups, if there’s another girl band on the bill we get compared to them. Whereas there will be like eight boy bands and none of them ever get compared to each other. But there is some solidarity because when we [other non-male bands] do play with each other, we’re all like fuck all this, it’s ridiculous. We get tokenized, guys literally ask us to come on the bill and open so they could check their diversity quota of being diverse like “we have one girl band.”

Is that tokenizing or belittling behavior is pretty blatant?

A lot of it is micro-aggressions. Just small little pokes. Like when people say we’re so good for a girl band and not just… a band. Boy bands don’t get that. Or after our sets they’ll be so surprised that we make music that men like. It’s stuff like that.

I notice you’re using the term “boy bands”, which is great. Is that a term that comes up or do you consciously categorize all male bands as boy bands?

That’s what’s really funny. I don’t know when we started doing that ‘cuz everyone’s like “all male bands” and we’re like, no they’re boy bands. They’re not grown men. They’re boy bands. But, we also want to fit in that space too. We’re boy bands. We make different kind of boy band music, and we’re actually girls, but we’re a boy band. Also all of us were fucking weird tomboys when we were kids. And now we’re all hyper femme and reclaiming that aspect of our dirty, reckless childhood in boy bands. But all the local male bands are boy bands to us. They would be offended if we said that, I’m sure.

I like that. So Metallica is a boy band, Led Zeppelin is a boy band? Big Black is a boy band?

Yup, we call ‘em boy bands who make “butt rock”. Butt rock music. We have a boy band butt rock song. But we look at Led Zeppelin and we’re like yeah, that’s butt rock. It’s a genre of music.

Has Women Bands(™) become a genre?

Yes, and it sucks. That’s why I feel we get compared to other bands. Because even though we make music that’s completely different from Scrunchies and other local bands, we get compared to them because Women Bands is a genre now. It’s baloney sandwich and I hate it. Because we’re girls we get pinned against each other, and you can feel that misogyny in the music scene. And then it gets kind of fucked up because I’ll be honest, I find myself comparing myself to other female bands because of my own internalized misogyny. But then I’m like, “why?”— I want them to succeed and I want them to have good things, and I want to support them as much as I can and as much as I want them to support me. But we’re lumped into one genre; if we’re women and a three piece, we’re a “Punk Woman Band.”

Do you feel safer or more confident when you’re on bills like tha-

Yes. When we get to play bills of just non-boys, it’s so good. It’s definitely just more safe and more fun hanging out backstage, and just naturally clicking. We both do this really hard thing for this thing that we love and have to go through more B.S. than boy bands do.  

You just played First Ave, a big historic venue. So there’s no denying that we’re seeing a shift in who makes music. Do you feel like we’re seeing an influx of more non-men in the scene?

Yeah! In some aspects, yeah. Recently I’ve been seeing more calls for non-men. There’s a DIY festival for non-men that we’re playing in Fargo, North Dakota. But I feel like we’re also very supported in this scene. During our tour we talked with other women and their DIY spaces. It’s hard for a lot of people to find their space and acclimate. A lot of spaces are male heavy. But there is definitely is a wave of non-men coming. Stephanie Jo Murck [a musician in the Twin Cities] is kicking down doors and making space for women in DIY spaces. We’re seeing non-men take up space they should have and not be confined to being a Girl Band Playing in a Basement. There’s so many DIY bands now that are comprised of mostly women, or at least fronted by them. It’s becoming more normalized and more accessible. And it feels good and welcoming, like we’re moving away from tokenization because it’s not something unnatural. It’s not super groundbreaking anymore to have women in music and rocking. There’s also so many non-binary artists. There is space for non-men musicians to just exist and do what they do best, and get supported!

If you were dictator of a venue, what would the rules be, what would it look like?

It would be a mixture of touring bands and baby bands. Bands who just started and want to make music, and just picked up instruments for the first time. I’d want space for them to open up for bands on main stages, just making space for young people of She Rock. There would be a lot of space for non-binary folks too. I feel like there’s a lot of space for women. But queer and trans folks, especially trans women, get the short end of the stick when it comes to DIY and that doesn’t sit well with me. There’s so much space and so much room for everyone to succeed and everyone to do well and support each other. I wouldn’t have it be a competition. It would be more of a collective, co-op type thing. I would like more of this. We’re like thinking of opening up our own space in a friend of ours’ house. And that space would be run by musicians with disabilities, and musicians of color, and non-male musicians. It’s in the works. There might be that utopian space coming soon.

What kind of conversations do we need to have to create more inclusivity in the DIY scene?

One thing I don’t like is people who claim to be woke and have all these inclusive thoughts and then just take up space from the people they claim they’re fighting for, that’s what drives me absolutely insane. It’s the well intended white people. They inadvertently take up space they talk about giving back. I’m black, and queer, and in punk music, and making music that is predominantly run by white males. We need to remember that that music came from black people. Inclusivity for that would be having those conversations and realizing where you stand and how much space you take up. You need to ask yourself if what you’re doing is uplifting and making room for more people or if it’s self serving. I would just like a space where I could feel safe at all times and make music at all times. It’s, y’know, simple things.

Is Minneapolis an especially white city to play in?

Oh yeah. When we went down to New Orleans it was cool to see that space because everywhere there were just black musicians owning that city. But here it’s… really white, yeah. I have to tell my brothers that sometimes I do struggle being in a band with two white people, because sometimes small microaggressions will happen and they don’t notice it. Like on tour we went to Birmingham, Alabama and I was a little nervous being a queer black woman in the south, and Trump is the president right now, so it’s dangerous to exist. And I was trying to explain that to them and they just hadn’t considered it. There’s those times where I can feel that their bubble is only so big. And sometimes my realities exist outside of their bubbles. And that’s within the whole scene as well. But I am starting to see POC come into the scene too. And when I see them it’s like, I’ve been waiting for this. It’s good to see people who look like me playing this kind of music.

Re: creeping on your Instagram, I notice you hashtag “women in music.” Is that for irony? Just in case people search that tag? Or is it how you would describe yourself?

I do that because it’s how I found bands on tour. I mostly do it so other women bands can find us. I go on it and reach out to bands on tour and make friends with other women in music and find solidarity. Sometimes I do do it as a joke, but I’ve just found that tag to be useful for networking with other women. And of course it’s ironic too because we do call ourselves a boy band- we’re all brothers.

Do you feel like this wave of non-male bands is paving the way for the baby bands out there?

I feel like that bit of credit is true for most female bands. Any non-male bands have had to go through some bullshit so the next wave of musicians can have a smoother ride into the space. One of the things I always try to say at our shows, to whoever needs it, is to just start a band if you wanna start a band. Just pick up and instrument, because we need it. There are so many non-men and POC who have such amazing things to say but nobody has pushed them to say it or made them feel safe enough to just step into it. And I know I needed that. If I hadn’t have seen Tony Peachka, I don’t know if I would’ve been inspired to just do it. All of these bands kick down a door so someone else can walk through it.

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